My Dear Friends,
I see people are discussing the "boards"... I have to thank them for helping me see the Truth! Jesus. Not a group of people, and certainly not an ugly spirit. For those who don't "know me", my name is Rachel, I am 40 years old. I have a 4 year old daughter, whom I am raising "alone", as my husband left us in a very ugly situation when she was an infant. We went to gospel mtgs together for more than a year, I professed... within a year he said, "I'm going to control my life myself... God gave it to me, it's mine, and that's it." Some time, and many terrible experiences later, he wrote and told me that his biggest mistake was in rejecting God. Sorry to say, he still isn't willing to change that. I pray for him, and for others in the same situation. Worse to know the dealings of the Spirit! and reject God than to have never known.
I do appreciate the spirit of love here, and the bread so often shared. Unfortunately I don't share so very often, but natural life is hectic between sickness and being a single parent. Fortunately in spite of physical limitations and weaknesses, the precious life planted in our hearts with that gospel seed can fluorish unhindered. If only I can live more of the dying life, I can live more fully. Eternally. My Testimony
Basically, I professed when I was 9 years old, with a child's understanding, and a child's desire "not to go to hell". When I was 17, and I understood that serving God meant denying my self, not some outward thing...I chose to please my self. Nearly 20 years later, after many experiences ranging from merely disappointing to nearly life-ending, I became so desperate for God to control my life (as I had done such a lousy job of it), that I began seeking Him in prayer. I went to many churches, seeking something I could take with me when I left... and though I went for several years to a church where the "Praise and Worship" part of the service seemed so "uplifting", I was so empty when I left. Nothing to take with me. No fellowship with His Spirit in others. Over the years, I had dismissed the thought that the way I was raised had anything to do with serving God. How could it, when the people I knew all had such terrible faults?
Somehow I got "hooked up" with some "bitter ex's" who all eagerly wanted to "prove" exactly why my feelings were correct. I'm probably one of the only (if not THE only) person to be convinced otherwise with their assistance. As I continued praying, I came to understand that the spirit these people were manifesting, in all their bitterness was not the spirit of Christ. I finally prayed to God and asked Him to show me where HE wanted ME to have fellowship with His children, even if it meant "Those people, and you know I don't like those people, but I'm so desperate I'm willing for anything."
Amazing... I went to mtg, and ALL those people had changed! : ) The gospel the workers preached was different than I remembered them preaching before : ) I professed a little more than 5 years ago with a new understanding. Salvation depends on one's INDIVIDUAL relationship with God! The Truth is Jesus, not a group of people! We walk together, and enjoy fellowship together, as we live in Christ. As long as we keep our eyes on Him, we see the Truth and the Way. Jesus is not a religion. Going to mtg is not a religion. It's not even where we go to worship God, although we certainly do that there as well. We worship God in Spirit and in Truth, as Jesus told the woman at the well. The Spirit of God that dwells in us has fellowship with His Spirit in others... and it's His Spirit in us that cries out to Him and has fellowship with Him.
This understanding gave me a whole new purpose. Live the dying life that Jesus lived, putting myself to death with God's help, so that His Spirit can live and grow in me. I want to live so that when God looks down on my life, and that when others look at my life, they can see that the most precious thing to me is the gift of the Holy Spirit, the eternal life He has given through His Son. I have never been to a mtg and not been fed, and were that to happen 'twould be because I failed to bring His Spirit to that mtg, not because of anyone else! And you know what? All those people I found such fault with... I dearly love each and every one of them! I love the Spirit of God in them, and understand that none of us will be perfected until we leave the confinement of this body.
We all need to pray for one another, and I pray especially for those who have lost their vision of Truth. The most important thing to see is that Jesus is the Truth. Of course sad to say there have been problems with some workers and friends, but mostly it's the perception/attitude of the person looking at the situation that makes the size of the problem (speaking from my own experiences). We aren't responsible for what other people say/do, but we ARE responsible for our reaction/answer/attitude. We are ALL human, and as much as I used to hate hearing someone say, "we're an imperfect people in a perfect way" it's true. Jesus is the Way, and He was, is and always will be perfect. The group of people are not the way, but as we live in Christ, we LIVE IN the Way, and walk in his footsteps. Thing is, this is a revelation from God, not something we can make another see. ! I know, because all the years I went to mtg as a youngster I never saw this. When I did come to understand it, I couldn't understand why I'd never seen it before!
If we keep our eyes on Jesus, the attitudes of others around us won't have an effect. It's really sad how many people have allowed the bitterness of others to confuse them. Perhaps they aren't concerning themselves enough with their own individual relationship with God, through Christ, which IS salvation. If we have a living relationship with Him, whatever happens on earth with ANYONE won't phase us, because our fellowship with Him is everything that means anything. I just want to live closer to Him, and keep my eyes on Jesus, so that no matter what happens around and about I too can say, "none of these things move me"...
Welcome to all the new folks in this group, and thanks everyone for all you share!!!
Love to all.
Rachel
I have decided to go to the VOT website and list what they say about the "two-by-two's". I have done this with a purpose of seeing how much of what they say is true and how much of it is "bad." The conclusions I have made are strictly my opinion and based on my experience and knowledge. Following each numbered statement, I will note if it is true or not true. If it is true, I will comment as to whether or not it is bad. Those that are not a simple true or false I will provide a comment. Again my comment will be based solely on my opinion and experience. Due to the large size of the web page I decided to only look at the "overview" section that is provided. In that overview section I came up with 89 separate arguments made by VOT writer(s). The division I made of 89 is by no means the only way to separate the claims, as many items could have been separated further. I chose to separate them in the way best for me to analyze the assertions. My first comment is that the writing is rather schizophrenic. It is neither informational writing, nor is it a critique or analysis. While it contains elements of these three methods, it adheres to no single purpose and even has parts of reflective writing. This fact renders the writing to be rather difficult to analyze.
Another factor was definitions of words. While the writer(s) chose certain words that I feel to be not the most accurate, I will not argue definitions in this paper. Rather, I will star (*) a word if the definition is less than appropriate. I found a few grammatical and spelling errors in the site and chose to leave most as written. I use the words "true and good" and
"true and not bad" as being different. Good would be speaking of "good", as in Christ like.
1. The people, known within the group as "friends" True and not bad
2. Believe that they alone, are in God's true and ONLY church. This thought has been taken in the past, though not as widespread today. Most find that this fellowship is where the Sprit has led them and has few if any rivals as to some of the forms that Jesus lived and taught
3. In reality this no-name church was founded* in Ireland in the late 1890's by a man named William Irvine. Not "founded" but participated in by Irvine AND others. I have found little if any reference to Irvine as a founder in writings by fellowship members. All the references to Irvine as founder are by people outside the fellowship. Cornelius Jaenen's extensive research and unpublished manuscript names many others along with Irvine who played an active role in the coalescence of the fellowship.4. He was joined by Edward Cooney, who was later expelled True and this could have been bad or good or neither
5. Cooney's small group of followers (Cooneyites) still survive today. True
6. At the start Irvine's followers were required to renounce all and become "workers." True and perhaps bad, yet it was corrected shortly
7. Eventually his own workers excommunicated him True and this could be good, bad or neither
8. and since that time they no longer acknowledge him as their founder*.
See # 3, although many acknowledge Irvine's role, there are some that were less free about sharing the facts surrounding William Irvine's role.
9. Irvine's movement spread rapidly at first and continues today. True and not bad
10. It is in most countries True and not bad
11. and although no records are kept; Not true and in direct contradiction to statement # s 33, 34, and 35
12. no doctrine is published, Not exactly true, as while no creed or tenets are established the teachings of Christ are taught and published bibles are used.
13. and publicity is shunned; Not true, many functions, invitations, lives are public. Media coverage while not sought, neither is it shunned. Many meetings are announced publicly in newspapers, with posters, and by announcements distributed door-to-door. Personally I live under far stricter requirements at my job than as a "friend" when it comes to my contact with the media in the respective roles.
14. there are thousands of "professing people" worldwide. True and not bad
15. The friends, also known as "saints", True and not bad
16. and "God's people", True and not bad
17. take pride* in the "true ministry." True and not bad
18. The workers (preacher/evangelists) leave their paid careers, True and good as it was the teaching of Christ, and the practice of early apostles
19. give up all possessions, Same as #18
20. remain unmarried While the large majority are unmarried there are and have been married "workers". Remaining single was an attribute that was seen beneficial by early apostles and disciples and by Christ himself.
21. and take no salary. Same as #18
22. (However, money is slipped to them quietly by the saints to assure they are well* provided for). True and not bad (see #18). Well-provided for is a questionable adjective. While some workers have ample funds others do not, and I daresay all have experienced scarcity from time to time.
23. Tax receipts are not issued for these offerings. True and not bad
24. Head workers in each area send out workers in pairs, True, pairs is good as that is how Christ did.
25. hence the nickname, by "outsiders", of Two-By-Twos. True and not bad and not self-taken.
26. The area in which each set of workers (either two males or two females) preach is called a "field." True and not bad
27. These "ministers of the gospel" live with the friends Partially true, though live could rarely be defined as a permanent situation (see #28) and many workers spend time in accommodations other than with the friends
28. moving to a different friends' house every few nights. True and good as Christ taught the same and early apostles lived much the same.
29. They eat the friends' food True and good, Jesus and the early apostles did the same. Christ instructed as much
30. and drive the friends' cars. True and good, Jesus and early disciples used other's means of transportation.
31. This group publishes only a scant few items. True, good and in direct disagreement with statement # 11
32. Their hymn book, entitled HYMNS OLD AND NEW, was published in 1951 and 1987. True, good and in direct disagreement with statement # 11
33. A "friends' list" giving name, address and phone number, is provided to a local area of friends. Sometimes True, (though by no means universal) could be good or bad and in direct disagreement with statement # 11
34. (Due to recent attempts to provide the friends with facts concerning their group, many friends' lists no longer contain addresses.) True, good and in direct disagreement with statement # 11
35. A list of workers' names and mailing addresses is produced. True, good and in direct disagreement with statement # 11
36. Notes of workers' sermons, taken from Conventions or Special Meetings, are typed and passed among the friends True and not bad. This is done on a personal exchange and is not a requirement
37. Taking notes of workers' talks is currently discouraged While this may be I have yet to experience or hear of it.
38. because, as one senior worker stated, "there are people out there who are trying to find out what we believe." I have never heard this statement or heard of a person that has.
39. Within society the friends usually keep a low profile. Partially true, as members practice the "be-attitudes" as taught by Christ. Members are active in their local communities. Some have run for public office, many serve their community in public positions. Many belong to clubs, associations, groups and other positions.
40. Women are expected to conform to a strict standard of dress. This is true in and has been true in certain areas. The issue is centered around the definition of modesty. And the need of some to assist others in maintaining that modesty
41. The "sister workers" set the standards for the women's appearance. While sister workers are usually the most modest in their dress. I know of none that try to dress like a sister worker, I have found most women to dress as convicted of God 42. Ladies' long hair is usually worn in a bun. True and not bad.
43. Plain dresses or skirts, Dresses and skirts yes, "Plain" would not be accurate neither would "ornate" but rather in the middle of ornate and plain
44. rather than pants, are the norm. True and not bad.
45. No jewelry is worn, except for watches, wedding bands and pins. True for the most part and not bad
46. No visible make-up is used. True for the most part and not bad
47. Men are to dress conservatively True and not bad
48. and maintain an "above the ears, off the collar"* hair style. Not entirely true and not bad, the men's hair is shorter yet plenty is not "above the ears, off the collar"49. Most often beards are frowned upon.I would say that most often beards are NOT frowned upon.50. Gospel meetings are held, usually in a rented facility, True and not bad, though the evangelistic practices vary widely from place to place, depending on the character of the community.51. to recruit new members. Not entirely true and not bad even if so.52. Two-By-Twos believe that "new comers" must* hear the Gospel preached by the workers in order to gain entrance into the "kingdom."Some feel hearing from a worker is a "must", a lot do not53. All existing members are expected* to attend these Gospel meetings purposefully held to educate "outsiders."Some may experience this, some do not. the meetings are for everyone to learn more of Christ54. The Sunday morning meetings and weekly Bible study meetings are for Members Partially true yet not the whole truth. In most areas, newcomers are welcomed to all the meetings of the fellowship.
55. and are held in members' homes. True and not bad, in fact this is how Christ and the early disciples practiced
56. Only the King James version of the Bible is recognized. Some experience a proclivity for the KJV, yet many study in other versions. And in many areas, versions other than KJV are commonly used both in public meetings and in private study.
57. Christian literature is to be avoided. Not entirely true. While the teachings of Christ or ample, many other reading is performed. This is done on a individual level. I have seen every type of literature, from a wide range of Bible helps and commentaries to the Left Behind series on members' shelves, with no hint of disapproval.
58. Workers use allegories throughout their talks True and good, Christ also did this
59. to prove their "way" is right Not true. All types of speakers, Christ being the chief example, rely on the use of allegory to illustrate their points, not to prove rightness.
60. or to warn people who might be questioning their beliefs. Not true. See #5961. It is possible to attend meetings for years and learn very little about God's Word.) Not true, except in cases that would parallel children who attend school for years without getting an education because they never applied themselves to study and learn.
62. Church property is not acquired True and good
63. although funds which are given to the workers are used to build and maintain convention buildings. True and could be bad when taken to extremes
64. The annual conventions are usually held on farms. True and good
65. These conventions last four days with food and lodging provided.True and good66. There is no charge and no registration is required, True and good67. however members do contribute food and/or money. True and good
68. Attendance varies from 300 to over 1,200 people. True
69. All members are expected* to attend at least one full convention each year. Expect is not a word that I would use, encouraged would be more apt. This could be either good or bad depending on the reasons for the "encouragement/ expectations"
70. Generally the Two-By-Twos do not have televisions True and not bad
71. nor do they attend movies or True and not bad
72. go dancing. True and not bad73. Drinking, moderation is encouraged (by the scripture and by members) if there is alcohol consumption
74. smoking True and good
75. and gambling, including playing cards, is out. Gambling is discouraged, though card playing without gambling is looked at differently than gambling with cards.
76. Christmas and Easter are not celebrated in any religious way. Not entirely true. Christmas is not believed to be the time of the birth of Christ and many biblical and historical authorities concur. Easter is recognized as the time of Christ's resurrection. And every Sunday this resurrection is "celebrated" as Christ instructed. And again all authorities recognize that bunny rabbits and eggs are not connected with the resurrection of Christ.
77. Contrary to true Bible teaching, the 2x2s, sometimes mistakenly called Cooneyites, do not understand that salvation is a free gift that cannot be earned. Not true as a whole, though some struggle with "works/grace"
78. Consequently they become "the best living people" in hopes they will earn their salvation Not true, many see themselves as sinners, with their only hope being in Christ.
79. Most do not consider themselves saved, Not true in my experience. Messages in conventions and workers meetings have often focused on the need of giving a clear testimony of our salvation.
80. and feel they must remain in the 2x2 system until they die to have even a chance of salvation. Not true in my experience. Their hope of salvation is in Christ, they choose to have fellowship with others of like belief
81. Some who leave "The Truth", as they call it, without learning that the group has a false doctrine and has hidden it's origin, continue to live in fear and feel they are doomed for a lost eternity. The few that I know that have left express otherwise
82. The Two-By-Twos deny Jesus Christ. Not true
83. This would be a shock to them since they feel Jesus is the head of their fellowship. Shock?no, Christ the head? True, Christ is the focus of the fellowship
84. They do not acknowledge that Jesus, Himself, is the Almighty God. Not true. This gets into questions of the "trinity" and often semantics is the key role in misunderstandings on this subject
85. They worship "another Jesus." With this "other Jesus" being undefined and this entire statement being unsupported it is impossible to answer without being able to read the mind of the writer.
86. Their ministers (workers) claim they have worldwide unity. Not entirely true, while there is unity in the spirit, differences on some issue are widely acknowledged, discussed, and addressed
87. However, they only have unity in the belief that the only true way to Heaven is through THEIR homeless ministry, and the church in the home--their "way."Not true, there is unity in many areas. Yet many believe that Christ within is the "true way" 88. This no-name church subtly propagates control, fear, guilt and anxiety within its members Not true in my experience. Some members though have issues of control, yet people have been able to see beyond people and to God in these occasions
89 However, because of the way they are organized, and because of their beliefs, the people are sheltered and they do not understand that they are in a spiritually abusive and emotionally abusive organization. Obviously an opinion of the writer.
90. There are a growing number of EX-Two-By-Two members who are now informing others about this group True
91. As of 1996 eight books have been published to document the beliefs, explain the history, and reveal the inner workings of the 2x2s. True there have been at least 8 books written, whether the stated intent is in fact the actual intent is open for debate.
To contact the author or to make constructive comments please email ABarkerN@aol.com. Be sure to include your name and address (email or otherwise), as I would like to respond to all comments.
