MinistersTestimonies

~~~ 70-1800 A.D Waldensians Apostles/believers (Page 81-101)

In the Alpine valleys Piedmont there had been for centuries congregations of believers calling themselves brethren, who came later to be widely known as Waldenses or Vaudois, though they themselves Never accept the name.

~~~ They traced their origin in those parts back to Apostolic time. Like many of the so-called Cathar, Paulicans, and other churches, were NOT "reformed", never having degenerated from the New Testament pattern as had the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox church, and some others, but having always maintained, in varying degree, the Apostolic tradition.

~~~ From the time of Constantine Emporer (3rd century) there had continued to be a Succession of those who preached the gospel and founded churches, uninfluenced by the revelations between Church and State existing at the time. This accounts for the large bodies of Christians, well established in the Scriptures and free from Idolatry and the other evils prevailing in the dominant, professing Church, to be found in the Taurus, in the quite seclusion of their mountains, and had remained unaffected by the development of the Roman Catholic Church.

~~~ They considered the Scriptures, both for doctrines and church order, to be binding their time, and not rendered obsolete by change of circumstances. It was said of them that their whole manner of thought and action was to endeavor to Hold Fast the character of original Christianity. One mark of their NOT being "reformers" is to be observed in their comparative tolerance of the Roman Catholic Church, a reformer almost inevitably emphasizing the evil of that from which he has separated, in order to justify his action. In their dealings with contemporaries who seceded from the Church of Rome, as well as later in their negotiations with the reformers of the Reformation (Protestants), this acknowledgment of what was good in the Church that Persecuted them is repeatedly seen.

~~~ The Brethren in the valleys Never Lost the knowledge and consciousness of their Origin and Unbroken history there. The Catholic Inquisitor Reinerius, who had been a member of Waldesian, himself. He died in 1259, has left it on record. "Concerning the sects of ancient heretics, that there had been more than 70: all of which, except the sects of the Manichaeans, the Arians, the Runcarians, the Leonists, which have infected Germany, have through the favor of God, been destroyed. Then quotes Reinarius the Inquisitor who, in a report made by him to the Pope on the subject of their faith admits, "They have existed from time Immemorial."

~~~ Brethren from Bosnia and other Balkan countries making their way through Italy, came to South of France, finding everywhere those who shared the same faith. The teaching brought with them found ready acceptance. When from the 14th century onward the valleys were invaded and the people had to negotiate with the surrounding rulers, they had always emphasized this. To the Princes Savoy, who had the longest dealing with the Waldenses, they could always assert without fear of contradiction the uniformity of their faith, from Father to Son, through time immemorial, even the very age of the Apostles.

~~~ To Francis I of France they said, in 1544: "This confession is that which we have received from our Predecessors in ALL time and in Every Age have Taught and delivered." A few years later, to the Prince Savoy, they said: " Let your Highness consider, that this religion in which we live is NOT merely our religion of the present day, or a religion discovered for the First time only a few years ago, as our enemies falsely pretend, but it is religion of our Fathers and of our Grandfathers, yea, of our fore-fathers and of our Predecessors still far remote. It is religion of the Saints and of the Martyrs, of the Confessors of the Apostles."

~~~ When they came in contact with the Reformers (Protestants movement) in the 16th century! they said: "Our Ancestors have Often recounted to us that we have existed from the time of the Apostles. In all matters nevertheless we agree with you, and thinking as you think, from the very day of the Apostles themselves, we have ever been consistent respecting the faith."

~~~ On the return of the Vaudois to their valleys, their leader, Henri Arnold, in 1689 said: "That their religion is as Primitive as their name is venerable is attested even by their adversaries," Arnold continues, "It would NOT be difficult to prove that this Poor band of the faithful were in the valleys of Piedmont more than Four Centuries before the appearance of the subsequent lights of the Reformation. Neither has their church ever been reformed, whence arises its title of Evangelic."

The Vaudois are, in fact, descended from those refugees from Italy, who after Paul Apostle had there preached the Gospel, abandoned their beautiful country and fled, like the Woman mentioned in (Revelation chapter 12), to these wild mountains, where they have to this day handed down the Gospel, from Father to Son, in the same Purity and Simplicity as it was preached by Paul, himself.

~~~ They believe in Apostolic Succession through the laying on of the hands of such as had it on those really called to receive this grace. They taught that the Church of Rome lad LOST it when Pope Sylvester (3rd century) accepted the union of Church and State, but that it remained among themselves. When, however, through circumstances, it was NOT of application, God could convey the needed grace without it.

Historical documents of The Cross and Crown by James D. McCabe (1881). Historical documents The Pilgrim Church by E.H. Broadent.

In Strassburg in 1212, The Dominicans had already arrested 500 Persons who belonged to the churches of Waldenses. They were ALL classes, Noble, Priests, Rich, and Poor, Men and Women. The Prisoners said they were many like them in Switzerland, Italy, Germany, Bohemia, etc., 80 of them, including 12 Priests, and 23 Women were given over to the flame.

The Waldenses Apostles had NO property or goods or homes or family. If they had these they LEFT them. Their life was one of Self-denial, Hardship and Danger. They traveled in utmost Simplicity, without money, without a second suit, their needs being SUPPLIED by the BELIEVERS among whom they MINISTERED the Word. They always went TWO and TWO, an elder and a younger man, of whom the latter waited on his older COMPANION. Their visits were Highly ESTEEMED, and they were Treated with every token of Respect and Affection. (The Pilgrim Church) The Vaudois missionaries were EVERYWHERE Proclaiming the simple TRUTHS of Christianity, and Stirring the hearts of men to their very depths. In Hungary, in Bohemia, In France, in England, in Scotland, as well as in Italy, they were working tremendously though SILENT POWER. Very FEW of them were MARRIED. Their missionary tours and their life were always spent amidst WARFARE and DANGER, which makes it easier to understand the reason of their CELIBACY. (The Cross and Crown 1881) Who is the FOUNDER of this NO NAME SECT?

Prominent among such teachers was PIERRE DE BRUEYS, who for 20 years, braving all dangers, traveled throughout Dauphiny, Provence, Languedoc, and Gascony drawing multitudes from superstition in which they had been brought up, back to the teachings of Scripture until he was burned at St.Gilles (1126). Pierre De Brueys was Joined by HENRI, a monk of clumy in deacon's orders, whose striking appearance, powerful voice, and great gift of Oratory compelled attention, while his denunciation of the CRYING evils that abounded his convincing Expositions of Scripture, and his ZEAL and DEVOTION, turned sinners, who were converted and became changed in life. Henri was able to elude from the Catholic Clergy, but at last into the hands of them he was imprisoned and either died in prison or was put to death there (1147). In accordance with the INVETERATE habit of attaching some sectarian name to any who endeavored to return to the teachings of Scripture, MANY were called at this time PETROBRUSSIANS or HENRICANS, names that they themselves NEVER acknowledged. In Languedoc and Provence in the south of France there was a civilization in advance of that in other countries. The congregations of BELIEVERS who met apart from the Catholic Church were numerous and increasing. They were often called Albigenses, a name taken from Albi, a district where there were many of them, but they or they never used this name until a later period. They had intimate connections with the Brethren-whether called Waldenses, Poor men of Lyons, Bogomils, or otherwise in the surrounding countries, where churches spread among the various people. Peter Waldo, a successful merchant and banker, was aroused to see his need of salvation by the sudden death of one the guests at a feast he had given. A Minister directed Peter to the Lord's words in Matthew 19:21 "If thou will be PERFECT, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasures in heaven, and Come and Follow Me." He therefore (1173) made over his landed property to his wife, sold the remainder and distributed it among the poor. For a time he devoted himself to the study of the Scriptures, and then (1180) gave himself to Traveling and Preaching, taking as a guide the Lord's word: He sent His disciples TWO and TWO before his face into every city and Place whither He Himself would come. Therefore He said unto them "the Harvest truly is Great but the Laborers are FEW: pray ye therefore the Lord of the Harvest, that He will send forth laborers into His harvest."

COMPANIONS joined him and Traveling and Preaching in this WAY, came to be known as the "POOR MEN OF LYONS." They were driven out of Lyons and Excommunicate by Pope Alexander III (1184). Scattered over the surrounding countries, their Preaching proved very Effectual, and "Poor Men of Lyons" became one of the MANY Names ATTACHED to those who followed Christ and His teaching.

The relations of Peter Waldo with the Waldenses were so INTIMATE that many called him the FOUNDER of a Sect of that name, though others derive the name from the Alpine Valleys, Vallenses, in which so many of those BELIEVERS lived. It is true that Waldo was Highly Esteemed among them; BUT NOT POSSIBLE that he should have been their FOUNDER, since they FOUNDED their faith and practice on the scriptures and were followers of those From the Earliest times had done the same. For OUTSIDERS to give them the name of a PROMINENT among them was ONLY to follow the USUAL habit of their OPPONENTS, who did not like to admit their right to call themselves as they DID, "Christians" or "Brethren."

Peter Waldo continued his travels and eventually reached Bohemia, where he died (1217), having labored there for years and sown much seed. The accession of Peter Waldo and his band of PREACHERS gave an extraordinary impetus to missionary activities of the Waldenses, who until this time had been somewhat isolated in their remote valleys but now went everywhere PREACHING the Word.

A decrial of Pope Gregory IX, in (1263) declared "We Excommunicate and anathematize ALL heretics, Cathars, Pararenes, Poor Men of Lyons, Passagini, Josepini, Arnaldistae, Speronistae, and others, by whatever names they may BE KNOWN, having indeed different faces, but BEING UNITED by their TAILS, and meeting the same POINT through their VANITY." The inquisitor, David of Augsburg, admitted that formerly "The SECT were ONE SECT" and that now THEY hold together in the Presence of their ENEMIES.

These scattered notices, taken from among many, are sufficient to show that PRIMITIVE Churches were WIDESPREAD in Europe in the 12th Century and 13th centuries. That in some parts they were so numerous and influential as to have a large measure of liberty, though elsewhere they were SUBJECTED to the CRUELEST Persecution. Although MANY NAMES were given to THEM, and there must have been a VARIETY of view among so many, they were Essentially ONE and had CONSTANT Communication and Fellowship with ONE ANOTHER.

*******(Romans 11:1-5) ... Elijah THOUGHT he was the ONLY ONE left alive. "Lord they have killed thy Prophets and dug down thine altars; and I AM LEFT ALONE, and they seek my life." But what saith the answers of God unto him? "I have RESERVED to myself 7000 men, who HAVE NOT bowed their knees to the image of Baal. Even to this present time also there is a REMNANT according to the Election of Grace."

*******(Hebrews 13: 7-9,17) Remember them which rule (guide) over you, who have spoken the word of God. Jesus Christ the same YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVER. Be not carried about with all kinds and strange doctrines... Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves, for they WATCH over your souls as they that must give an ACCOUNT that they may do it with JOY, and NOT with GRIEF. Pray for Us (apostles).

****** Interesting Brief Testimonies of some Ministers or Workers who know about the Origin of the No Name Sect from 1900-2000.

Thanks to Cherie K. for the information's which she has collected through the years.

#### Jesus had laid the FOUNDATION: (I Cor. 3: 10-15). I have laid the foundation, and ANOTHER buildeth thereon. But let every man take HEED how he buildeth thereupon. For other Foundation can NO MAN lay than the One already lie which is Jesus Christ? Now if any man Build upon this FOUNDATION, gold, silver, precious stones (Jesus teachings) wood, hay, stubble (traditions of men). Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abides which he hath built thereupon, he shall RECEIVE a Reward.

***** "We did NOT start this Jesus Way...it was started and planned by God before we were ever thought of, and we are NOT starting a new religion. We are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the Saints and trying to separate it from the traditions of men..."Edward Cooney (minister) Within Impartial Reporter" 1O/7/1909

.****** "We believe we have EXISTED since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples Two and Two." Richard S.

****** "It's from the beginning, planned in God's mind before creation. Walter N.1967

.****** "We go back to the beginning." Calvin C. 1988

****** "Was William Irvine the first in the way?" "I think William was amongst the first... I feel that God has had a Way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth... I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it." Bea M. 1985

****** In answer to your question, "Where did this religion actually begin?" Was it with Jesus as we have been told in Gospel Meetings, or by a man name William Irvine in 1897? We believe Hebrews 12:2 "Looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." I would like to give you some references that mean a lot to me as we carry the Gospel to people and point them to something that is from the beginning and not to something started by MAN. In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was, and in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word" etc. So, there is NO date for the starting, as it was with the Heavenly Father before the world. Why would we want something started by a Man when we have in the scripture something that is from the beginning and the scripture to back it up? Doris B. letter, 1989

****** "I never met William Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was NEVER the ORIGIN of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and LEFT the fellowship we love. Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of William Irvine, or any other man and give only real appreciation for those who retell in our days things taught in Jesus' day. This faith began in New Testament days, neither in Ireland NOR in the U.K. Roddy M. (Scotland Worker) letter dated 6/1/1995

****** "You sound rather disturbed about something to do with a Man Called William Irvine. I do BELIEVE he served God in sincerity and truth at one time. What happened I've never asked because our life doesn't really revolve around any person, but around JESUS? We feel sad at heart if any LOSE out because it's eternal life that is our goal, and we are eager to reach that Goal and help others to reach it too. Even though David knew all the "ins and outs" of Saul, he NEVER once tried to expose him---even if we knew all about others (which I don't and never likely want to) I don't think it would be KIND to keep talking. Of course the soul (William) died in 1946? You mentioned he is gone and the Judge of all the earth will do right by all, but I am sure your faith isn't built on the RIGHTS and WRONGS of men, but the SIMPLE truth in JESUS. We heard at convention about FAITH--God's word--God said it, we believe it and that SETTLES it--gives us a wonderful peace. We rest our hope on what God has said--What God pointed us to. This settles it once and for all and it brings a great peace. We feel so privileged to know and see what has been REVEALED to us and this REVELATION is a ROCK to us that the VERY GATES of HELL Cannot Prevail against. Keep your faith strong in the MAN Christ Jesus. Tests will come but we must hold fast to what we have attained." Helen P. (Scotland worker) 6/15/1995

****** "William Irvine Did Not start this Church, it is from beginning, and the Way was just made evidence to him, then." Karen T. 1996

****** Letter: Then we are sometimes asked, "Why don't you speak of older ministers of the faith of Jesus in past generations?" God's answer to this question is found in II Cor. 4:5 "For we preach Not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake." So, it is NOT the will of God for US to be preaching about ministers of past generations. We PREACH CHRIST." Dan H. 1984

****** "However, regardless of a written record being preserved, TRUTH is TRUTH. If nobody believes it and or ... if everybody believes it. Whether or not a thing is believed in has nothing to do with its correctness. To use parable illustration, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That is an established fact of existence. Whether or not people believe the sun rises in the East and sets in the West...in no way changes that established fact of reality...Everybody could believe the sun rises in the West and sets in the East, but this would not make it true. For anyone to say that what the Bible teaches was started at some certain year since the first century is pitiful IGNORANCE, and closing the eyes to established facts and truths. The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on the earth. That is those truths were established in a group of believers then. But that is NOT where it started. What God gave through his son was planned before the world began. Matt. 15: 34-35; John 17:24; Acts 3: 20-21; Rom 16: 25-26; I Cor. 2:7; Eph 1:4-5; Titus 1: 2; I Peter 1:18-21

. "These truths make very clear that what God... The Son of God... and the Holy Spirit believe in, and what God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we BELIEVE the same TODAY. So, it is 100% FALSE for anyone to say that WHAT we Believe was started in some recent year." Dan H. Letter 11/21/89

****** "We are NOT following some way FOUNDED in the early 1900s, but it goes back to Christ. Jesus Himself set it up. Whether it was planted in the 1st Century, the 10th century or the 2Oth century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester 11/16/83

****** "We are simply a CONTINUATION of the Author of Truth." Harry B. 8/16/79

****** "We are often asked who started this Church?" Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of Salvation in its fullness. He is both the Author and Finisher. The WAY is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was CREATED at the beginning of the world. Dan H. 1/1/84 Burlington, WA

.****** "Look at it like this. I have NO idea who my great-great-grandfather was, but I know that he had to exist, because here I am today. We know how life begets life and it is the same spiritually. I do not believe in some form of Apostolic succession that would be like the Catholic Church. People might build their faith on that, but I would like to believe that the friends, and ministry did come down through history that way." Eldon K. 6/4/95

****** "Often we are asked who started our fellowship, our doctrine, ministry? We are NOT interested in tracing personalities. Some say this was started with Jesus, but it began with God the Father, He gave Jesus the Gospel, the Doctrine. As Thou has SENT Me so have I SENT them--the SAME WAY--God STARTED it all, its the foundation on which we stand." Ken Pagington 9/22/1996.

****** "Don't you believe that something so PRECIOUS to God could be Preserved and PASSED through his Beloved mouthpieces over any age and time? God's way is ETERNAL!" Cheryl L.

(Revelation 14: 6-7, 12-20) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every Nation, and Kindred, and Tongue, and People, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of His JUDGMENT HAS COME. ...Here is the Patience of the Saints. They that KEEP the Commandments of God, and the Faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, unto me, "Write, Blessed are the DEAD which DIE in the Lord ... And I look, and behold a white cloud (Christ) having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a Sharp Sickle. Another Angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him, that sat on the cloud, "Thrust in thy Sickle, and Reap: For the TIME is come for Thee to Reap; for the harvest of the Earth is RIPE..."

(Matthew 24: 29-31) Immediately After the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not given her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And there shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall ALL the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with POWER and GREAT GLORY. And Christ shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER together his ELECT from the FOUR WINDS, from ONE end of the heaven to the other.

(Revelation 19: 7-8) Let us be Glad and Rejoice, and give honor to Him, for the Marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should array in Fine Linen, Clean and White, for the Fine Linen, is the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the Saints.