This information come from the Encyclopedia of American religions/Faith Mission and Cherie Kropp's gave us a brief outline of William Irvine's life and it was posted on Marge's/Professing message board with these information on (11/27/01) William Irvine (1863-1947) was born in Kilsyth, Scotland in 1863. William Irvine, was raised in the Presbyterian Church and he had two brothers and *six sisters*. He had a son out of wedlock named Archie, who was born in (1886-1951). However, in 1/8/1893 William Irvine was born again, or accepting the Lord Jesus through the preaching of a Presbyterian evangelist, (Rev.) John McNeil who was connected with Dwight L. Moody's evangelistic campaigns. I have a copy of the Faith Mission's Bright Words 13th Annual Report Nov/Dec1899.
Mr. John George Govan, in Scotland, founded the Faith Mission in 1886. The Faith Mission is a Protestant evangelical movement that works in neglected rural communities. Our 13th year with the total of 65 workers (preachers) were as follows: 1) John G. Govan (the Founder) and Mrs. Govan in 10/14/1866. 15) William Irvine 6/14/1895 17) John Kelly 5/27/1896 22) Harry O. M'Neary 1/10/1897 36) Joe Burns 1/8/1898 48) 14th Annual report May Carroll 11/19/ 1899. John Kelly entered the 2x2 ministry (1900), Harry M'Neary (1903), Joe Burns (1903), Adam Hutchison (1902), and May Carroll (1903). These five names and two more of Faith Missions workers became 2x2 itinerant workers through William Irvine's testimony. According to Cherie's researches from 1899-1905 2x2 itinerant workers' list, there were more than 202 workers, 126 brothers and 76 sisters. William Irvine was put out of the Faith Mission in 1899. Cherie Kropp has done an extraordinary amount of research on William Irvine's life and ministry. Here is a brief outline of his life posted on Marge's/Professing Message Board, and on her own Website "Telling The Truth".
1. My, (William Irvine) calling was in 1/8/1893. He was born again through Rev. John McNeil, a Presbyterian evangelist.
2. William Irvine became a Faith Mission member and a preacher in 6/14/1895.
3. He was put out of the Faith Mission in 1899. (William claimed to be the Founder of the 2x2 itinerant ministry movement Oct.1897 in Ireland).
4. Then William Irvine, George Walker, and Jack Carroll were in New York when the second group came to USA in 1903. According to the Encyclopedia of America Religions:
5. William Irivine was rejected to be one of the overseers by most of the 2x2s seniors itinerant ministers in 9/1914.
In September 1914, William Irvine was ousted for some sort of scandal (sexual misconduct behaviors with married women) and he was teaching false doctrines also. He had written many letters to the friends all over the USA and Canada to sell their homes, farms, and invest their money in railroads, fisheries, canneries, shipping, etc. He was under the awful delusion that he is one of the two witnesses of Revelations, Chapter 11, and prophesies a worldwide drought and famine beginning 8/1/1914. William Irvine probably continued going to the meetings from 1914-1918, from some statements he made from his letters to the workers and the friends. "Revelation didn't open up" to him until the fall of 1918. So, he didn't prophesying until the late 1918 that he was one of the Two Witnesses in Revelations, Chapter 11. Or that they were in the Judgment day period of Revelations as of 8/4/1914; and that the time of mercy and grace was over, etc. It appears from 1918 William Irvine was in California until he left for Jerusalem in 11/1918 to wait for the Prophesies of Revelations Chapter 11, as one of the Lord's anointed ones. He died of throat cancer (from smoking) in Jerusalem in 1947.
12/17/2001
Hi, George (Gittins, is currently preaching in Canada).
My name is Nathan Barker from Oregon, USA. I was on Howard Mooney's staff from 1986-94. It was in the early 1990s when I read "The Secret Sect", which was written by an ex- 2x2 member Doug Parker. Now there are at least five (5) websites and nine (9) books. Now, many ex-2x2s members have claimed William to be our Founder in Oct.1897. So, when I was with Harold Bennett (Overseer) in 1991 I asked him, "Harold, did William Irvine start this fellowship in Ireland?" He showed me a letter, which written by a senior worker that William did not start this fellowship in Ireland. I read a very similar letter which was posted on Cherie Kropp's Website 1/24/2000. "What George Gittins told the workers and the friends about the early days of the truth." William Irvine's sister went from Scotland to Ireland to work in someone's home. When Sunday came, she noticed there were chairs set around the living room, and she asked about it. The people of the home said they had a worship service in their home each Sunday morning and a few others came also. She asked how they got started doing this, and she was told their Ancestors heard homeless preachers in Switzerland. There were no workers in Ireland or Scotland at this time, later his sister returned to Scotland and told her brother, William Irvine, who was dissatisfied with the Church.
His sister had embraced the faith while in Ireland, and when she told William about it, he also embraced it, and told his friends, who did likewise. William Irvine's sister had been told about the lifestyle of some who had been homeless preachers in Switzerland, and when he heard of this, he recognized it as scriptural, and he told others (John Kelly, Harry M' Neary, J. Burns, May Carrol, Adam Hutchison, George Walker, Eddie Cooney, etc.)
~~~~ According to Robert Darling's (from Ireland) testimony he became a 2x2 itinerant worker in (1905). He mentioned that William's sister became very ill and died. Robert said, "William's sister, had a dream, which she related to William, which deeply stirred him in some manner, supposedly influenced him religiously from then on." (Margaret died in 1886! William became a Mission preacher on 6/14/1895. He left Faith Mission and became a 2x2 itinerant preacher on Oct. 1897) 1. William Irvine had two brothers and six sisters. By William's admission in a letter which he wrote later in his life. "I have lost my sister (Margaret) when she was 25 and I was 23 years old. She was like a second mother to me, and we were more to each other than any of the others younger could be... now I'm into my 84th year with only 2 sisters left out of 11 in the family." Cherie Knopp has spent a tremendous amount of research on William's life and she has found records of his family.
1. Birth date: 2/24/1861 Death date: 7/18/1886 age: 25 Name: (Margaret) Spouse: Unmarried
2. Birth date 1/7/1863 Death date: 3/9/1947 age: 84 Name: (William Irvine) Spouse: Unmarried*** William Irvine's family history can be found at: http://home.wwdb.org.resource/BRG-4-4-IWmiBook.htm#1863
According to Mary (Lizzie) Elizabeth Coles' testimony, she professed through these four men George Walker, William Irvine, Willie Weir, Eddie Cooney's when they had gospel meetings in England, on May 1, 1899 Mary (Lizzie) Elizabeth Coles was born May 5, 1878, Cornwall, England. Parents: John and Mary Coles, a residential of London.Occupation: John Coles was a London City Mission Society preacher. One bleak, wet day, four strangers knocked at John's Coles' rectory door, asking permission to use the mission hall for several weeks, in order to have some gospel meetings. These workers were George Walker, William Irvine, Willie Weir, and Eddie Cooney. Most of them were fresh from Ireland. John Coles explained that he could not pay them any salary, and they said Jesus did not get a salary, and they didn't expect one either.
John Coles told them the congregation was poor and not much in the collection plate, so they told him they did not take up a collection. He said they were welcome to use the hall. Marry (Lizzie) offered to play the organ for their gospel meetings and they accepted. She had never heard such preaching and she was Spellbound! Her father of course, was becoming more and more irate as their message was slowly brought home. The difference between his paid ministries was made so clear.
We don't know how long it was before he asked them to leave, but they asked to have one more gospel meeting, so they could inform those who were coming, and he granted that wish. They tested the meeting and "Lizzie" was the ONLY one who saw the differences and had the courage to make her choice. Naturally, her father was furious and his pride was hurt before his whole congregation. In a moment of anger, he ordered her to leave and not ever come back. This date was May 1, 1899. Marry (Lizzie) had turned 21 years old on April 5, the same year.
Heartsick, but knowing her choice was the *right* one, she fled across London to where Bill and Maggie Carroll (2x2 itinerant workers) were having gospel meetings in a used store building. They had heard the gospel in Ireland and were enthusiastically carrying it to England, despite the fact that they were already married and had a baby, May, when they heard and accepted the gospel. They received (Lizzie) and suggested that she stay and help them with the meetings. She did that, helping also with the baby and inviting people in the district to gospel meetings. They all lived in the upstairs of the building and had meetings downstairs. It was during this time the baby became very ill. The drafty storeroom and not enough nourishing food aggravated the situation.
Marry (Lizzie) watched Bill and Maggie arrive at the terrible decision to part with their little baby girl May, in order to continue with the work (of the ministry). They took May home to Ireland to be raised by Mrs. May C. Shultz. One can imagine the impression this made on "Lizzie Coles!" If these people could put the work of the gospel even before their own little one, how could she withhold her life from the work (of the ministry)? It was arranged for "Lizzie" to join Bill's sister, May Carroll, (was on Faith Mission worker's staff 10/11/1899), to be her companion. The two girls preached in villages of Ireland. They visited folks on bicycles. Sometimes they received, but at other time they were, Pelted by potatoes or clump of dirt thrown at them! They attended a convention at Crocknacrieve, Ireland.
At this convention, an appeal was made for workers to go to America, and "Lizzie" volunteered. According to an old letter from George Walker, she and 2 other girls, plus 5 brothers, who were Jack Jackson, Dave Lyness, Jim Jardine, Frank Scott, Willie Weir, Bella Cook and one unnamed sister, who sailed for New York in Dec, 1904. In the course of time, they arrived at New York and were met by Jack Carroll (May and Bill's brother) and George Walker."
The rest of Mary Elizabeth Coles testimony can be found on our Website. "George, can you tell us more of what you know about William Irvine? A lot of people will appreciate any information you can provide or confirm on William's sister's story from your recollection of the early days, which you heard or know of."
Thank you. A brother in Christ,
Nathan Barker
12/28/2001
Hi Nathan,
Yours was of great interest. Here is a little outline of what Robert Darling (worker in 1905) told me. I also talked to some of the friends who had witnessed William Irvine's baptism in the Truth. He had been baptized in the Faith Mission, where he had been a member and a preacher, but he disregarded this. He preached some for the Faith Mission, but renounced it upon hearing the Truth. Robert Darling knew William and also the folks he heard first. William Irvine's sister came from Scotland and went to work in someone's house on a farm in Ireland. When Sunday morning she came into a room, was set up for worship. The folks of the home said they had worship service in their home every Sunday A.M. and a few others came. William's sister wanted to know how this started? The folks said their ancestors had heard homeless preachers somewhere near Switzerland and in the Alps. They embraced the faith, and a church meeting was started in their home by these homeless preachers. When the folks had to leave that area due to persecutions, and came to Ireland, they continued the service in their home.
William's sister was religious, but dissatisfied and seeking God for truth, so she embraces this faith, as was convicted it was the true way of God. She later returned to her homeland and told her brother William Irvine, who was extremely interested, as he was dissatisfied with the Church. He and his sister came to visit with these folks, and upon hearing their testimony, recognized it as scriptural and was also convicted it was God's true way. He later had his calling by the Spirit of God to go into the harvest field as Jesus taught his disciples. Leaving all and going out by faith.
Later, I (George Gittins) talked to Garret Hughes (an older worker) whose parents professed through William Irvine. He had mentioned something about Switzerland concerning Truth being preserved. Garrett said if Robert Darling told you this, it must be true, as he was there and knew first hand how this happened. I (George Gittins) talked to old Mr. Holland who was nearly 100 years old, and his folks had told him the same as Robert related. We are glad for this first hand account, not that it matters so much, for Jesus said by their fruits you should know it. When one has the fruit we need not worry so much about the tree and its origin. However, I found this most interesting.
Yours in Christ,
George Gittins
There are always three sides to every story. There is how it really happened. How one side thinks it happened. How the other side thinks it happened. How those who heard about thinks it happened. And how God looks at the whole picture. Then there is our opinion. As we know, those who "will " believe, will need "little" convincing, but also there is often "no convincing" for those who "will not " believe. We all have in position where we are unable to convince someone, despise the evidence we provide. The only thing we can do is present our evidence before others, where we let the Holy Spirit reveals His Truth in Jesus to the readers. I enjoy what a certain worker mention about revelation of God. Revelation is progressive! It is a matter of personal revelation from God to the individual. We all are at different stages on our spiritual journey, and are able to understand the spiritual and divine knowledge that is based on the individual progress! A man convinced against his will of the same opinion still. God can and does reveal; we simply cannot dictate what others must or must not believe. It does not work this way. God only holds people accountable to the level of understanding, knowledge and teachings of Jesus that they have received.
In his speech: "Following Up the First Century Church," Dr. Jaenen, one of the church historians professors in Ontario, Canada alleges that Irvine heard this fellowship through Willie Gill's family: "A number of tracts and pamphlets directed against us have identified William Irvine as the Founder of our faith in Nenagh, Tipperary County, in October, 1897. The fact is that William Irvine was in contact with people who believed in the "Apostolic faith". The homeless ministry did begin in these parts and spread throughout the remnant country very rapidly, so that within the first few years of the 20th century, there were scores and scores of young men and women (and some were not so young) who went into the revived the itinerant ministry. Willie Gill went into the 2x2 itinery ministry in 1900.
Further, direct from William Gill's (Willie's father) testimony found in two articles from the Impartial Reporter. Quote from July 29, 1909 issue:
"Mr. William Gill told of his conversion in Meath, of how he was an earnest churchman for years. But when the Holy Spirit spoke to him, he came out of the churches and into the Christ's way ". He had several interviews with the old rector of the parish who confessed with tears in his eyes that the poor (homeless) preachers were in the right way--the "Christ's way".
~~~~ Cornelius J. Jaenen (1927- )
(a 2x2 friend) has written a book in 2003.
The Apostles' Doctrine and Fellowship.
(A document history of the early church and restorationists movements)
http://www.legaspublishing.com
LEGAS
P.O. Box 040328
Brooklyn, New York
USA 11204
3 Wood Aster Bay
Ottawas, Ontario
K2R 1B3
2908 Dufferin Street
Toronto, Ontario
M6B 3S8
Cornelius J. Jaenen, Ph D., LL.D., FRSC, Professor Emeritus of History at the University of Ottawa, is presently Honorary Secretary of the Royal Society of Canada and member of the executive committe of the Research, Centre for the Religious History of Canada, Saint Paul University.
He was the founding president of the Canadian Ethenic Studies Association (1973-73). President of the French Colonial Historical Society (1986-88), and president of the Canadian Historical Association (1988-89). His publishcations cover an impressive range of historical issues and he is in great demand as a lecture on national and international circuit.
This tripartite documentary collection introduces the salient characteristics of the structures, beliefs, practices, and challenges of the first century! Christians church. It proceeds to illustrate the subsequent developments of these characteristics over the next TEN centuries as Christianity accquired power and prestige.
These developments can be interpreted either as an unrestrained institutional evolution or as a departure from the "Apostolic" model based in good measure on the invented tradition. A final section documents attempts with in the mainstream and also in heretical movements, for at leat the fourth century to the present, to retain, reconstitute, or RESTORE! the original Christian model.
12/3/2001 -
Dear Nathan,
We were traveling for several weeks so have been away from my computer. My husband and myself are working in Kansas, USA. We did a couple of farm shows and a lot of demos of our farming machine. We especially enjoy seeing our friends and workers in different areas. We were in a home of a young couple in Wichita, Kansas (USA). His grandmother was born in North Dakota and was a good friend of my grandmother.This young man had a great aunt who was one of the early North Dakota workers.
He brought out some handwritten history she had before her death. Along with this was a letter from Hazel Hughes. Hazel stated that some of her family had professed in Ireland in 1888. Interesting! I hope to visit with my sister-in-law's mother Fran Ross from Canada, the lady who has the old letters about the early days. Letters telling about William Irvine being baptized in the truth. Fran said she would send us copies of what she has, but must have forgotten! She is quite elderly. We hope to make a trip to Canada soon.
Your sister,
Grace B.
1/1/2002 -
Dear Nathan,
Thank you for posting the letter from George Gittins. It was exactly what I have heard! I would like to clarify a couple of points. I believe Garret Hughes' (Hazel's brother) parents professed through William Irvine when he came to North Dakota. It was William and another young man coming to bring the Hughes' family the gospel. William Irvine knew some of the Hughes family who were professing in Ireland, and when they came to North Dakota.
He and his companion went to visit the North Dakota Hughes. I recently, read a letter that Hazel Hughes wrote about early times in their family. In it she stated that some member of her family had professed in Ireland in 1888! From our own family history, we know about professing family in Ireland, before the turn of the century when several workers went to other countries. Our understanding is that these people in Ireland had been meeting in their homes for fellowship and worship and were praying for a ministry like they read in the Bible. When the workers came, they accepted them as sent by God, and these "friends" in their homes made great sacrifices to help the workers to go to other lands with the gospel l.
We heard them selling their furniture, farms, lands, etc. Garrett Hughes, a brother worker, his parents, who had professed through William Irvine, had mentioned something about Switzerland in connection with the "early days" in Scotland. George Gittons read in some history books of an itinerant preacher group that fled to America during the persecution in Europe and later to Switzerland.
We also heard about the Swiss workers from the family Dan Seitletz, a man who was one time Jack Carroll's (started in the ministry 1905). Dan Seitletz, was one of our church elders for many years. Dan was preaching here in North Dakota. He met and married a woman from Hope, North Dakota. Dan became a farmer and he and his wife had five children. One of his daughters told me about Swiss workers! Dan's daughter is about 82 years old now. I am very sorry that I did not get the names of the workers of Swiss ancestry! Dan Seitletz was also a Swiss.My husband's grandma professed in Ireland in 1899.
Today, several members of our family were together. Our parents were telling about our great-grandparents coming from Ireland to North Dakota 1883. That was a vast, barren land in the wintertime. They heard the gospel when George Samuel and Ralph Bullock came knocking on grandpa's door in 1906. That house was built in 1910 on the same farm where my grandfather accepted the workers into his tiny little shack in 1906.
My dad was born in that house 1913. Dad isn't well as he has Alzheimer's, but he surely enjoyed hearing about the early times. When our daughter Debbie, was in Ireland several years ago, she visited an elderly man whose last name was Buttimer. He was delighted to meet Debbie, as he and she are relatives. He told her about the friends who met in their homes. As I understand it was in many places, there was not an active 2x2 itinerant ministry. The workers had not come yet. The friends came first from Switzerland due of severe persecution.
In Appreciation,
Lyle and Grace B.
1/3/2002
I appreciate what Nathan Mcathy said at special meeting here once; "If no one in this hall follow truth, truth would remain the same." I would think it would be naive to think that the gospel seed was dormant for 1800 years. I doubt there was ever a time in the last 2000 years there was no one serving God. I believe God used William Irvine in sowing the gospel seed, but it is ridiculous to think that it was dormant before his time.
Your friend,
C.R
1/4/2002
Hi Nathan,
Yes, you are right that our Lord has planned all things well. Some of the main ones that are pushing the negative books and websites were acquaintances of mine. You may be interested in knowing that I have been doing research for five years into the Greek historians writings and have found references to the friends many times. Of course, there is no way to prove that they were, but when you read what they say and teach, you just think, well they are writing about some doctrines that we know today.
The exact same Spirit in them is the same as today, in those that are walking in the truth. I have been also studying the Greek language and have found many interesting things, and absolutely all of them reinforce truth. Pliny is one that mentioned 2 female ministers in his days. There are many, many others that one-day I hope to put into writing. I do know that we do not have to have records, but at times I believe our Lord reveals things for a purpose, and maybe later we will understand the reason.
I often think of the fact that our Lord says, " Believe me and I will show you ". The world says show me and then I will believe you. As we believe in faith, then God will show more every day of His greatness and of His love for all of us. Also, I realize that so many of these things are not absolutely necessary, but it sure helps me to be thankful for the truth in Jesus. Thanks, for posting George Gittins' letter.
There are so many just like that, who professed long before William Irvine in 1897. I will try to put into words, with the place to find proofs, the references to the truth from the years past. I will try to be in touch, and it does seem like the place to put these words would be on your Website.
Thanks,
A brother in Christ,
J.
(33 A.D.) Jesus said to his disciples, "And I say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:13-20)
In the Greek "Peter" is Petros ("detached stone") and "rock" is Petras ("bedrock"). The "bedrock" on which the church is built 1) Christ; 2) Peter's confession of faith in Jesus as the Messiah. (V.16) 3) Christ's teachings---one of the great emphases of Matthew's gospel. (NIV)In 33 A.D. (Matt. 24:14) Jesus said, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." In (95 A.D) John the apostle said, "I (John) saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the Everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. Fear God, and give him the glory, for the hour of judgment has come... Another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, " Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time has come for thee to reap; for the Harvest of the earth is RIPE." (Revelation 14). (II Cor. 4: 3-4) If our gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which Believe Not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. (II Thes. 2:11-12) For this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie; and they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (John 14:6) Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me." (II Peter 2: 6-9) It is contained in the scripture, "Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, being disobedient: Wherefore also they were appointed... Someone wrote:
The Truth of Jesus cannot be Improved upon;
Truth of Jesus is Sound, Flawless, Pure;
Truth of Jesus cannot be Altered or Eliminated;
Truth of Jesus is Indestructible;
Truth of Jesus Endures Forever;
Truth in Jesus Remain the Same and Ever will remain;
His Truth endures to all generation (Palms 100:5)
Truth is Truth, Regardless of Who Perceives it, or Fails to recognize it;
Who Understands it or Misunderstand it;
Who Opposes, Challenges, Questions, or Doubts it;
Who Misinterprets, Misconstrues, or Distorts it.
Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Way, and Life;He is the same as Yesterday, Today, and Forever. (Heb. 13:8)
